Weird Auto Balm glitch - important.

What the hell? Did you call Bilt-Hamber yet?

 

This is kind of making me glad I did not order a tub of AB yet.

 

Seems to that when the plastic is wet the white does now show, almost like when wet sanding the sanded part looks "normal" but once it dries you see the white again, similar to once wet sanding you dry the area you see all the marks. If black wow takes care of it, it seems like it is 1. doing what normal wax's do which is to show itself and make it white or 2. has discolored the plastic by some reaction that was slow. I am going to guess that once black wow is washed off or warn off it will be back, but wont know till then. Like I said I am guessing you have tried different cleaners. Dying the plastic may be a good bet, I will talk to my dad and see if I cant get you some black plastic dye when I get back home from TX.

 

Strike my previous post. It's still there on the Toyota, just the rain water makes it very difficult to see it. Once I dried the area I was looking at, yep...still there.

I don't, but Majestic should have some. I'll go over in the morning and pick some up. 151 is that one step stuff, correct? I think it's pink in color?

It's funny you mention the FK 350. I've tried all manner of different vinyl and plastic dressings, and guess what I keep returning to? Vinylex. It's inexpensive, easy to find, looks good, lasts well. Try it, if you haven't. IMO it's a very underrated product.

I know. Nevermind the fact that it took a full month for this to start to show up, and once it did, it got worse and worse.

 

So nothing from the manufacturer yet? Tell me you've gotten in touch with them...

 

I haven't tried yet, but I'm going to. They're in England, so the time zone difference means those guys are in bed right now.

There's all manner of little random white patches showing up on the plastic bits on my pickup truck. That's what's got me the most worried. I've done customer cars with this stuff. If they get up in the morning and all their trim has turned white, they're going to tell people I suck, don't use me, and all of a sudden I'm out of work.

Ken has great luck with it, and I really like it too, but this is the first time I've ever seen anything like this.

 

Yeap, D151 is the pink stuff, it really is a great product to have in your aresonal.
Vinlex on outside plastic? I like the look of FK350 on tires but one rain and its gone so I have been using Meg ASD I really like that on tires. Used ASD on rubber and it turned it white so I never chanced it again.

 

Thanks for the heads-up on this product, let's see what BH comes back with as far as a reason is concerned... And hopefully a fix!

 

OK thanks. I've seen 151 in there before, just never picked any up. Sounds like I'm missing out!

As to the Vinylex: try it. Everybody's different, you might hate it.

As to the black exterior plastic question, I believe I misspoke. I usually use Stoner Trim Shine. And we can see how my Auto Balm experiment is going...not very well.

If you get a chance, go into Show and Shine and have a look at the befores and afters on my big black F250. You'll notice stuff like the HVAC controls and the window switches darkened up nicely. That's Vinylex. It's been my favorite for years now, because I try something different, and I keep returning to it. Half the cost of 303 and doesn't require a special trip to a boating supply place to get it.

Very long lasting too...it'll go months on interior stuff. If darkening up black plastic is one of your things you try and do, Vinylex is great.

Now watch Ken or JL or somebody come on here and say they hate it. :lol:

 

I'm going to go with you've applied it a bit thickly, and not buffed it sufficiently, but what shampoo are you using?
Are you foaming or APC pre-washing? If so, what are you using and solution strength?

Forget phoning, send Pete an e-mail and links to the pictures wherever they are hosted - or a link to this thread.
He should be able to surmise what's going on and how to remedy it.
Irrespective of AB's chemical cleaning properties and solvent contents, it is designed to be trim-useable.

More importantly, what did you use to make sure the trim was fully cleaned, ready for the AB?

 

I have a new theory that I'd like to run by you all.

As JL and I both so famously demonstrated a month or two ago, Auto Balm is on the finnicky side with respect to chemical compatibility issues. Ben told us both to not top it with Vintage (or any wax), but JL and I can't help experiment, so we topped it anyway. :lol:

Several days later - possibly on the exact same night - we both noticed these splotchy areas all over our cars. His jet black BMW, my dark silver S2000. They were terribly difficult to remove too - clay didn't work. Had to get the rotary out. :yikes: So, lesson learned, right?

Perhaps not. You guys have probably also seen both JL and I at least mention a product Majestic Solutions sells called "Enviro-Shield." My current guess is that these two don't play well together.

For those who don't know, Enviro-Shield is a spray on, let it dwell, rinse it off sort of product. It produces the same effect of Rain-X, without all the ridiculous buffing of that Rain-X haze that I know we all secretly hate. Anyway, it's great stuff, and is generally among the last things I do, it's part of my final rinse step. Well, when the excess Enviro-Shield inevitably runs down the windshield at the rinse, what's it come into contact with? The cowling.

I also used Enviro-Shield to protect the F250 mirrors and the bumpers. Which was an unusual thing for me to do, I mostly did it to play with my new sprayer :lol:. And what's on the plastic on those two items? Auto Balm. So this whole thing *may* simply be a product incompatibility issue between these two.

What I still don't understand is why it took it a month to show itself. The Toyota, that car mostly stays in a garage, so it makes sense that the trim freaked out today, first it's been out of the garage in a rainstorm. The F250 though, that thing stays parked on the street.

Anyway...at the present time, I believe there are three open questions.

1. Why did it take a month to show itself?
2. Why is it all uneven looking
3. Are these pieces of trim ruined?

The F250 I'm not real worried about. As you guys know, that truck was a basket case when I bought it, and I remember the cowling being really ratty when I got it home. The Spyder though, that one's an issue. You can't tell from the photos, but that cowling is a very large piece of plastic, and replacing it is likely to be very expensive.

 

Thank you very much for the response. I was hoping you would see this thread.

I know I put LSP on way too thick, AB is no exception there. It's a habit I'm trying to break, but habits are tough to break. But it seems impossible to know when you're "finished" buffing. Since the AB sort of disappears into the car...how do you know when to stop?

Pre wash for me is (and I know some of you are gonna hate me for this) a Griot's bucket with a bunch of Dawn and about an ounce of Majestic's Super Green Stuff APC. I won't swear to the exact dilution ratios, but it's on the aggressive side. Two buckets always, both with GGs in them.

I don't do the foam thing. Makes for cool pictures for the internet I suppose, I just think it's another piece of equipment to drag around.

The trim was cleaned, by hand, with the same Majestic SGS APC at roughly 3:1. It is, for what it's worth, quite strong. Stronger than Meguiar's APC certainly. Totally paint safe though. Thorough rinsing always. SGS is really good about rinsing clean very easily - it's one of the reasons JL and I like it so much.

After polishing it with a whole mountain of different pad/polish combos, I use a 50/50 IPA wipedown to remove the polishing oils. I found this struggled though, so I tried Meguiar's "Final Inspection," which is body shop safe, and that helped a lot.

And, of course, being that I bought it used...who knows what's been on it before.

The Spyder got Duragloss Aquawax at the dry step.

 

sounds like I wanna stay away from AB...I always top my sealant with wax...

 

You'll cuss for hours if you top AB. And you'll have to start all over.

 

The directions dont say plastic useable...every product im sure has its own side jobs that it can do that arent necessarily recommended...lets take the original version of M105, it was supposedly for only rotary use, but a lot had great luck and maybe even better luck by DA..still meg's wouldnt endorse it...i just hope BH even lifts a hand because Karl and I both have used the product for something that it is not specifically mentioned on the tin.. Oh well, lesson learned Karl, i just hope you dont suffer financially from this...it was a great idea. The look is awesome

 

that's why I don't want it. Like I said, I like topping sealant off, and I always do. Thanks for the heads up...

 

The trim issue isn't closed. BH could very well say to me "yes, that should have worked, here's why it didn't." I'm not giving up on the idea just yet, I need to see what BH has to say. And I am now convinced it's the Enviro-Shield incompatibility issue I proposed earlier. That idea makes too much sense for it to be anything else.

Ken raised a valid point to me on the phone though. It's tricky to use a product designed for x thing for y thing, because you have no way to know what will happen. But part of the fun of detailing, for me, is the experimental aspect of it. Sometimes experiments end badly.

I don't think it's going to be too bad. Black Wow is working. BW isn't my favorite product - I actually kind of hate it - but better an afternoon spent with BW and a foam paintbrush than replacing the cowling on the Spyder. As to the other worries, I'll be stripping the headlights on the S2000 in the morning, and putting some AJT down because it's easy.

One small clarification. The AB on plastic trim idea wasn't my idea. The guys over in England have been doing this for a while now with a lot of success. No big deal, just want to make sure nobody thinks I'm taking credit for an idea that wasn't actually mine.

Especially now that we think it doesn't work. :lol:

 

Regardless of what manufactures say, wax and sealant are for PAINTED portions of your vehicle. We have plastic and rubber specific products for trim. If you keep the AB on paint, you'll have no issues. Promise.:thumb:

 

Many users of a car forum over here top their AB with Collinite - no issues, and the black trim gets done with it too, since it doesn't stain.
So far, there's been one incident with Vintage - aside from beading characteristics, topping AB is a waste of effort, time, and ultimately money.
Auto-balm is not your stereotypical sealant, where you need to top with a wax to offset the sterile looks they tend to offer - it has enough wax-like traits to satisfy the demand for depth/wetness/richness, but is still giving you the longevity and shine/gloss that sealants provide.

With respect, you're giving yourself paranoia over nothing, especially since you've not even tried it yourself.

 

Karl, your routine above sounds fine - plenty of strong degreasers and rinsing.
Regarding the heavy handedness, you really will need to resolve that if using AB - apart from wasting product, you give yourself more hassle in removing/applying it.
Literally, all you need is 3-4 dabs into the paste or a light drag across - yes I know it looks like bugger all is on the pad, but trust me, that's plenty for 1/4 of a panel, maybe even 1/3.

You should e-mail BH, and let Pete (owner and chemist) advise on what he thinks may be the root cause.
If anything, because of their ethos, it may set him off on trying to replicate the issue, and seeing if the formulation needs tweaking to mitigate against it.
Bear in mind though, this product took over 1000 different formulations to get where it is - and they made it suitable for all bodywork parts (plastic and chrome), not just paintwork.
It even has rust inhibitors (as does the Auto-wash) for users who've got stonechips down to the bare metal - I can't think of another product that has the same thought/consideration applied to its formulation.

So, get a strong solution of your preferred "APC" and do the shuttle panel and rear bumper with it - that'll remove the AB.
Redo it with a lesser amount (as described above) and buff well.
Don't apply anything over it for at least 30 mins, and even then, nothing more than a QD would be my recommendation, but you shouldn't really need that either.

Just out of curiosity, how does the trim look when dry and bare?
Is it faded or have any haziness?
Have you also tried rebuffing the scuttle panel when the white stains show up?
When you're cleaning it as suggested above to remove the AB, use a nailbrush or something to really scrub the plastic clean.