wax volume

Do you guys select your wax based on the volume by it's percentage or you go with just feedback on it?

I have been looking at different waxes and can't help to wonder why some waxes don't list this info. Like CG's 50/50 or WG's Fuzion.

Does anyone know the wax volume for them? Could it be low and that's why they don't have it listed maybe?

 

No, never buy a wax based on it's volume of carnauba. It means very little and you have no idea how brand A measure it compared to brand B. You're buying a finished product that performs in a certain way because of the whole recipe rather the actual wax content.

 

I believe only higher end wax list the percentage also which kind (white or yellow nuba), not sure if it's marketing ploy on their part.

Car waxes reminds me of wine and speaker cables, so many subjective opinions going around. I try many of them and come back to the same mfg that I am comfortable with (both price and performance).

 

:thumb:

 

Spot on.

And the whole white and yellow carnuaba thing would seem to be tainted with marketing as well...

Only buy on performance on the product, and remember that as a wax, its not going to be delivering much (if ultimately any) to your final look - its there to protect it.

 

I'll concede that a wax provides a mesure of protection, but if it adds nothing to the final 'look' why would so many show car detailer's use it over a polymer sealant?

Percentage of wax content- most carnaubas advertised with 50% or more Carnauba wax content is truly advertising a weight, not a volume. 30% by volume is about 50% by weight is about the maximum content (approx 35% Carnauba by volume makes it almost impossible to add/remove) that’s why you never can truly assess the amount of Carnauba in a manufactured wax unless the manufacturer specifically lists its content percentage by weight or volume. When making a comparison ensure you compare like with like i.e. % volume or % weight

Rubbish Boy's comments are spot on

 

So does P21S 100% go by weight or volume or is the amount of carnuba wax 100% Carnuba wax?

Just more hype i suspect!

 

Absolutly

Quote: P21S 100% Carnauba Paste Wax Product.

I see you are referring to our new P21S 100% Carnauba Paste Wax Product.
What we make is a simple promise and it is written right on the package: "We guarantee the only kind of raw wax contained in this formulation to be Number 1 grade Brazilian carnauba from the copernica cerifera tree." Unfortunately consumers have been confused in that the final product (auto wax, or wax) is the same name as its key ingredient (raw wax). In a way it is like a cup of 100% Colombian Coffee. Fact is, 95%+ by weight is water! Here, you are correct that other ingredients are required to make a wax, namely oil(s) and solvent(s). Most manufacturers blend various raw waxes. So do we in our Concours-look Paste Wax which uses several waxes including Carnauba and Beeswax.

Our 100% Carnauba Paste Wax Product is quite different in this regard, containing only Carnauba as its raw wax component. If you start using the terms "raw wax" and "finished wax" you will surely do your readers a good service. Even then, however, it will be difficult to compare waxes based on absolute content of carnauba, as manufacturers typically do not tell you whether, say 40% is meant as 40% of the total finished wax or 40% of the raw wax content. In our case, we have done so more clearly (as per our guarantee above), though for proprietary reasons we cannot divulge this as a percentage of total finished wax".

Kind regards,
P21S Customer Service

 

Personal choice perhaps? Better beading perhaps, as this is a wax quality? Following marketing hype surrounding LSPs perhaps?? Whole variety of reasons why one would choose specific LSPs...

I know I've started personally to move round to sealents as I personally cannot see any tangible additions to the looks from a wax, so I am using what is durable as that is ultimately what we use an LSP for... However, many will still want to use a wax for this purpose, but if I was to put a car in natural light with one wax, and one with another, would you be able to tell the difference? I suspect not... but its suspicion which is why I have organised a full-on LSP test to this end.

I stand by my original statement, wax (or any LSP) ultimately adds very little if anything tenable to the ultimate look of a well prepped finish. A subtle nuance perhaps, but significant differences - nope.

 

Can I ask then what gives wax it's insane beading?

 

Physically speaking (alas, I'm no chemist but a physicist instead):

Beading is a result of surface tension - the slick/slippy/call it what you will surface of the paint caused the water to bead. You dont need an LSP for this, perfectly clean unprotected paint will bead water quite happily.

So, waxes must present the water with a different "slippiness" to form the tighter beads than sealents, which typically see larger beads and more tendancy for water to roll off the car (which is preferrable to me, rather than lots of beads sitting on the car for ages and then drying to water spots...)

Over to a chemist for the chemical make-up explanation....

 

Beading is just a factor of the hydrophobia a surface demonstrates, and its result on surface tension of a water molecule that has landed on it.

A totally smooth and clean surface allows a water droplet to form into as much of a globe as it can, whereas an uneven or dirty surface will break the surface tension of the water and allow the droplet to spread out.

This is why a highly polished and clean surface offers good beading.

And why a highly waxed surface (the wax creates a smooth layer on top of the paint) offers good beading.

People can be confused with beading effects as dirt on a waxes surface can destroy beading effects, despite protection being present beneath the dirt. And also, a highly polished unprotected surface can also bead nicely, as mentioned above.

Furthermore, sealants can have hydrophilic characteristics, where the surface 'loves' water (rather than repels it!) so much it destroys all the surface tension and spreads the water droplet accross the surface. This creates 'sheeting' more than beading. A surface like this can still offer protection - despite beading being non-existent.

 

Maybe I misread this, but surely you mean that carnaubas advertising more than 50% content are advertising a dry volume rather than dry weight or wet volume? Dry weight/wet volume is about half the dry volume measurement, so 30% by wet volume is about 30% by dry weight which is about 60% by dry volume. You seem to have this the other way around.

Dry volume is a strange way to measure carnauba content within a product, scientifically speaking. Wet volume of melted flakes or dry weight of flakes (where air between flakes is not taken into account) is more accurate.

Of course, some carnauba percentages refer to the percentage of carnauba as a proportion of wax content only, i.e. 70% carnauba, 30% beeswax. This seems to be the case with R222 100% wax.

I did an experiment regarding this here:

Mysteries of the Carnauba Trade Part 1 - Fun With Volume - Detailing World

 

is there anyway we can call one of these high end wax companys. and ask then how they measure these high carnuaba percentages? would they even tell us?

 

Ask them to make a statement in writing what the concentration of carnauba wax is in the product, ie what percentage of the overall product is carnauba wax itself. Also ask how they measure the result.

If they put this in writing they have nothing to hide as it could be put to independent scrutiny and verification.

 

im sure they would say there formula is confidential.

 

it would be also hard to know who to ask ? if you call custemer service. there likley not going to know.

 

Why should they? A figure is often written on websites and on sales literature? All you're after is written confirmation of what that figure actually means. Knowing the carnauba content does not tell you how to make a wax or revealing of the formula - it is like trying to make a brownie simply knowing it contains 36% chocolate.

Write to their customer care email address or contact address. They should be qualified to answer the question or find someone who can.

Look at the intelligent response from R222 regarding the 100% wax. Surely you could expect that from other mature and established wax manufacturers making percentage claims?

 

This is what 70% carnauba by volume looks like. There's no way you can use this content to wax your car.

 

:yikes::drinking2::yikes: