wax volume

thats funny. ive seen that before and it still makes me laugh:applause2:

 

That's when Swissvax and Zymol comes in, they experiment with catalyst to blend more-more nuba but keep it in paste form (not brick). I heard montan oil is known to be used.

If that's not true than all high end waxes are just snake oils.

 

Montan oil is mentioned on a lot on Zymol reseller sites, in lists of ingredients, but what is it? There is no mention of it anywhere other than on Zymol related sites, even chemical manufacturers I have asked have no idea what it is.

 

Pure Carnauba assumes a rock-like hardness and must be softened before it can be applied. Most competitive waxes use harsh petrochemical solvents to soften the Carnauba, but these solvents also re-enter the paint potentially softening the paint. Montan oil is a natural solvent derived from the sap of the German Coal Black Evergreen tree. The oil is removed from the sap, spun and distilled to make the Carnauba spreadable. Because it is highly spun (very thin) it allows the Carnauba to enter and fill in microscopic scratches on the painted surface yet will not react with the paint itself.

Found this on drivewerks.com after doing a search on montan oil on google. Dont know if its right or not, but it was talking about Z**** waxes

 

And that's all I have ever found out about it too. Now try and find out what a German Coal Black Evergreen tree is. All that comes up is the same text about montan oil on Zymol related sites. Perhaps they are growing their own species of trees now? :giggle:

 

Montan wax - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Tried Montan wax this time. No mention of any tree!

 

Montan wax is basically a black 'coal wax' as used in shoes polishes. If you take Montan oil as beings its liquid derivative, you would logically have coal oil - oil derived from fossil deposits deep underground... sounds familiar... I think you could ask any Saudi or Texan about this subject Petrochemical oils and solvents are actually quite common as your gas station attendant will tell you.

In my early experiments I used the harshest and most aggressive solvents known - industrial thinners that can melt plastic within minutes - and they basically had minimal effect on softening carnauba beyond standard solvents. Talk of magic ingredients and techniques needs to be independently verified as it goes against common knowledge and chemistry. The fact is that measuring by dry volume gives the high percentages often claimed, as does measuring carnauba as a proportion of wax content only, or measuring carnauba as a proportion of solids content after solvent evaporation (ie what is left on your bodywork). These are justified scientifically, but make up your own mind whether they are justified from a marketing perspective :shead:

 

tryed emailing swissvax to ask them just for my couriosity. about how they measure there carnauba. but for some resone my email wont go through?hmm not sure if its my computer or not. anyone have an idea.

 

If you take it as a play on words, German Coal Black Evergreen tree. Montan Wax comes from Lignite coal which is a particluar type of coal from the fossilised remains of Evergreen trees, that come from the German black forest. Lignite oil which is also derived from this coal is also known as mineral oil, also known as paraffin oil. A very common and not very sexy sounding ingredient that makes a very good solvent in car waxes. Of course that's just me playing with the words. :shead:

 

Its like National Treasure. One clue leads to another and another and another.

 

I've not seen a volume stated as wet or dry just a volume i.e.
Quote: Zymol - Royale Glaze contains 70% Brazilian No.1 White Carnauba by volume.
Swissvax - Divine™ containing over 60% by volume of ultra pure Brazilian white carnauba"
from their respective websites

Honest opinion or merely advertising? Commercialism brings with it concerns of honesty and true representation. Marketing Hype = Blurring the distinction between science and fiction Advertised Claims= Nothing more than advertising copy of dubious functional validity.

Its very unusual to find someone who will be as upfront as you are prepared to be about their own products. Thanks for the honest information

 

i just emailed swissvax. and asked them how do you measure the carnuaba in your wax? whats the overall carnuaba in one container? ill post what they say if they email me back.

 

Well, that's the golden get out clause as far as I can work it out. If it is measured as a dry volume it is still 'by volume' but that is like me saying that the new Dodo Juice Raptor 5000 sports car does 0-60 in 3 seconds flat. You think it is doing 0-60 mph in 3 seconds and are impressed. I actually calculated the 0-60 kph time and let assumption do the rest. In a hypothetical court situation, I'm sure the defense would be that the by volume figure is accurate. But why choose dry volume, if this turns out to be the case? Wet volume or dry weight would be the more scientific way of measuring carnauba content in a paste wax.

The saddest thing of all is that both S and Z make great products; why the need for a carnauba arms race when the reality is that it is just one component of a good car wax and there are many great sealants out there that don't need it at all? And from a marketing ethics point of view, I would expect any claim by any manufacturer that can be acted on by a purchaser to be independently verifiable or provable by the manufacturer. I hope the companies in question respond with proof or independent verification when challenged. P21S (R222) gave an intelligent response to the question that was asked, but even then, they only put 100% carnauba on the packet as it would obviously be seen as a product virtue. How many consumers would act on that product benefit vs the number of consumers who fully understood the claim being made? Technically and legally R222 seem to be acting legitimately, but it hardly helps educate the consumer and could even be seen as being a bit cynical from a marketing perspective.

 

Did you ever get a response?

 

FWIW, The PS21s version of the wax comes with a little booklet that clearly explains what they mean by the wax percentage. Now I understand that a lot of people will not read the booklet, but I find this is much more then most other wax companies (present tense excluded) are willing to concede.

 

no response back.. and i called zymol to ask them the same thing and they said they would get back to me they have no idea. and they never called me back . so i gave up
i love carnuaba waxes so ill continue to use them no matter if there hyped up or not
if im happy with results thats all that matters.



tom

 

LOL, you have to wonder why they don't respond.

Either:

a) they don't want to give an official response for some reason (you'd think they'd have nothing to hide so why not give a response? Confuses the heck out of me.) So it must be:

b) lack of knowledge about their own products... pretty crud for any company not to know some basic answers to questions about its products, especially if it is used in marketing them!

c) can't be fecked to respond... poor customer care.

So not looking good anyway.

Shame, as carnauba waxes ARE good and the companies mentioned make good examples of them. But why the wall of silence? Straaaange.

 

Does not surprise me. I agree though. I have pretty much become a nuba addict, so as long as I like the results, I'll keep buying the wax.

 

Very good read. Nice to know that caranuba content isn't everything.

 

Glad you guys brought this thread back to life.... good read. Great to see Dodo Factory participate in it, too.